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rainsilent
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Posts posted by rainsilent
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Good start to the guide, thanks rainsilent!
One thing, isn't playing the off-wing a matter of preference?
Yes and no. Yes in the sense of reality that some players do and don't like it and players can pass the puck better and protect the puck better with the puck on their natural side. No in the sense that this is a game where, just like reality, it is easier to score on the off wing. There is no yes part in the game minus your own personal preference whereas there is the benefit of better scoring on the off wing. So if there is no known same side benefit but there is an off-wing benefit in game why not take advantage of the side that gives the advantage?
Oh it's here ! Thanks Rainsilent !
It might be a linguistic issue for me but, the "it factor" doesn't mean anything to me. Is "it" an acronym ?
On the forum, I found quite a few posts alluding to the side of the wingers, but nothing precise. As you might know by now, I really don't know much about hockey in RL since it's really a small sport here in France. So I actively browsed around to know a bit more on the issue, and basically what I understood from it was that the off-wing was harder to pull off but rewarding. I figured that in RL there was a bit of both, so I didn't care much in the game.
Since you put it that the game rewards the off-wing, I'm gonna investigate that on my team.
Also, is the side a matter for defensemen ?
Again, ignorant concerning RL hockey question. From reading Nicolas Senet, I got that powerforwards have a more defensive approach, concentrating on hits. But if shooting and passing matter, then he's more of an all-rounder, isn't he ?
I have an interest in this role, since it seems to fit well in most lines.
The it factor is a phrase in America that is used to describe intangibles. I figured this would be an issue but didn't know of a better way to put it.
For D I haven't noticed a difference whatsoever. However regarding off-wing it is more difficult because passes are much harder to make and receive and it is much harder to protect the puck from defenders however the benefit is one timers are easier and more effective as well as shots where the player starts with possession are much more dangerous because of a much better angle to the net.
Regarding power forwards they are about as defensive as snipers and playmakers. Meaning they can be defensive but they definitely are more offensive in focus. Several of the best both current and in history were not known for their defensive prowess. A power forward is an offensively focused player that plays a power (can include lots of hitting but doesn't have to) offensive game rather than a finesse game. The all around player is more the two way type. Also just because a player hits doesn't make them defensive in nature at all. A power forward is great on almost any line. They are great options on offensive, two way and energy lines. However they may not be great options to have on checking lines. Getting hits has nothing to do with defense unless you really stretch it far in an argument saying that it can force turnovers. Defense is the most important thing on a checking line and a power forward by pure definition is not about defense. That doesn't mean that there aren't good power forwards that are good defensively.
Let me list a few players that are, at least refereed to on occasion, as power forwards and tell me if you think they are defensive in nature. I don't do this to be rude in any way. Rather I do it so you can look at the type of players that fit the power forward mold so you can get a proper idea on what a power forward is like. Joe Thornton (its Jumbo Joe for a reason,) Milan Lucic, Shane Doan, James van Riemsdyk, Peter Forsberg, Eric Lindros, Alex Ovechkin, Brendan Shanahan, Owen Nolan, James Neal, Rick Nash.
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Player basics has been updated.
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Player Advanced
To start this section off I will give the biggest mistake I see regularly from many managers regarding players. Overall fixation. Overall means nothing. Yes, it means nothing. Seriously it means nothing. No really. It means nothing. Ok, it means something. But only what you can expect a player to ask for when it comes to contracts. Beyond that it means about as much to you as the favorite color of that person you don't know driving a boat somewhere in an ocean nowhere near you that you will never meet. The player's individual skills are what is important. Let me give you an example. 2 players. Player one (P1) has an overall of 80. Player two (P2) an overall of 79. The mistake I see many managers make is going for higher overall players in FA when they don't need to and playing higher overall players higher in their lineup over more skilled players. There are at least two mismanagement issues happening here that I will get into much more deeper later. Let's look at the skills of the players I gave as examples.
P1 | P2
Spd 85 | 75
Pas 75 | 85
Pct 85 | 85
Sht 75 | 85
Def 75 | 75
Phy 85 | 75
Spi 75 | 75
End 85 | 75
Fof 85 | 85
P1 is nothing more than a 4th line SHL or GHL checker or a poor choice for a BHL offensive forward whereas P2 is a player, depending upon the talent of the league, that can potentially play a 2nd or 3rd line offensive role in the GHL.
Player roles. How to identify them and using that to determine how to put your team together.
To be good at doing this yourself requires that you do a little bit of homework. Specifically scouting. More specifically scouting your league. To identify what roles a player can fill you need to know what the general "best" of your league is. You basically want to find out what the best 20 of x look like in your league. For instance I know that I have two of the best 9 playmakers (passing and puckhandling skills combined) in my game world (I used to have 3 of them but I believe in giving something to get something from the AI aka I like to make fair trades with the AI) in Mikulas Rakita and Waide Rose, yet they are 84 and 83 overall respectively. They are the two lowest overall of the top 9 but there is no reason they should not be in any other teams top 6 forward group. There are only 7 other players that are as good playmakers in the entire game world. How about a more extreme example. There is a 79 overall player in my game world that is one of the top 19 playmakers of the entire game world. The next closest of the rest of the 19 on overall is 83. That player should be playing a top 6 forward role in the GHL because again there are only 18 other players in the entire game world as good as they are as a playmaker. Yes, the player is pretty much crap outside of his offensive skills but he is the perfect example of a role player. He is an amazing offensive GHL talent relative to the current league and should be playing in a top 6 role. That is how you identify the roles a player can potentially play but how do you determine where to play them in your lineup?
Creating a lineup sounds easy to do however it is a lot easier to mess it up than it is to get it right. This is where I see a lot of managers getting it wrong. The first thing I do when making a line is to decide on whom I am building that line around. Choose a player for each line and then find 2 complimentary players to play alongside them. I prefer to build around my centers. It makes things rather straightforward. No matter the 4 players you choose the next step is building the lineup around those players via finding players that complement the players you are building each line around. The key to doing that well is identifying the strengths of your players. If the player you chose for your first line is a sniper you want to get a playmaker to play with him and the third be good, but not great, at both just in case either one of the other two players have a bad game to prevent the line from being shut down. Likewise, if the player for the 2nd line is more of a playmaker you want to be finding a shooter and another who can do a bit of both. What about if the player is a two way forward? Well, the key thing to remember is that, at the end of the game, the goal is to score more points than your opponent. This means that you want your more defensive lines to be able to contribute offensively as well every once in a while. Thus when building those lines take a look at their offensive skills and build them with that still in mind but with less emphasis.
So this is my IHL team's roster.
Something you will notice is a lot of centers. It wasn't intentional. That said let me go over how I built the lines and why I did what I did. First I chose who I would build the lines around. As I said I prefer to build my lines around my centers. The 6 best centers I have are, in no particular order, Chenard, Keef, Gagnier, Spiva, Sibelius, and Sibley. Of those 6 I went with Gagnier, Chenard, Sibelius, and Spiva.
I built my first line around Gagnier. He is my best offensive center and you want your first line to be your best offensive line. That said Gagnier is a do everything offensive player which means I want to pair him with a playmaker and a scorer. The idea behind that is if any one player on that line has a bad game the other two can comfortably take up the slack without much difficulty as, no matter what, there is still a playmaker and shooter. My best playmaker and my best scorer are Fausher and Mckennon respectively so I put them with Gagnier. For an offensive line you want to focus on offensive talent no matter what tactics you are using nor the rest of the skill set of the player in question. Even if everything else skill wise is bad if the player has some of the best offensive skills on your team play him in your top 6.
I built my second line around Chenard. At this point, things got tricky for me because you want your 2nd line to be your 2nd best offensive line however that couldn't have been done if I gave Keef his own line as he is my 2nd best playmaker and I don't really have a suitable 3rd playmaker for a top 6 playmaker role. Thus instead of giving Keef his own line I put him on the wing here and gave the line a shooter in Markkula for the best offensive balance I could manage.
The 3rd line is where you ideally want to start really striking a balance between offense and defense. While this line isn't ideal in that manner I know it should be an ok line as it was my best line in the LIHL the season prior. The center is Sibelius and the two wingers are Hoy and Lymburner. Again if you look you see a playmaker, scorer and a third that can do a bit of both on that line. As I said prior this helps assure offensive balance on the line making it harder to shut down.
The 4th line can easily be a do anything line that you can scrape together for specialist purposes. I've created checking and energy lines with my 4th line and found success with such set ups both times by finding the right players. However, this line is just what is left with what I have. It is centered by Spiva with Stpeter and Wahlstrom as the wingers. While it isn't ideal and is kind of ho-hum with nothing really interesting going on I didn't really have an option at this point.
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Team Advanced
To start this section off I will give the 3 most common mistakes I see managers make and add the key reason to why so many people struggle to do well as a manager of a team consistently.
1. Too many big contracts, especially in term (aka length). The only reason you should give a player a contract longer than 3 season is because you can guarantee that they will be a major player on your team for the entirety of the contract from the moment they sign until the season that contract ends. Major being core of your offense, defense or #1 goalie that is exceptionally talented relative to your league. Everybody else you should be signing, and if you want resigning, to deals 1-3 seasons in length. A rule of thumb to use is having no more than 6 or so players with contracts longer than 3 seasons.
2. How young can you go? There are a number of managers that are obscenely obsessed with having a young team. I have seen a post before of a manager offering a 25yo player looking for a young player in return. 25 IS YOUNG! Yes you want some young players but you want some vets too. A veteran player gets a veteran experience bonus to their play making them typically play better than younger players of equal talent. At the same time players develop more the more they play. The key is striking a balance between youth and vets on your team. Keep in mind you also have draft picks that will turn into players every year. Even if you don't bother with the draft you are pretty much guaranteed to be getting 1 player than can make your roster in 3 seasons time. Having a roster full of young players is a potential disaster as you could be forced into letting go a young and talented player.
3. Role players are key. As much as you need offensively talented forwards you also need defensively talented ones as well. As much as you need defensively talented forwards you need defensive puck movers as well. I have seen one manager get as many of the top talented forwards as possible and not bother about D or goaltending. I have also seen a team with 4 lines of very good offensive forwards struggle because of no defensive forwards despite very good D and very good goalie. I have also seen a team that had 6 great defensive Dmen but could not pass the puck and again struggled. They were all missing key components that are needed to make a successful team. Something as "simple" as not having a handful of quality defensive forwards can make an otherwise top 6 talent team in a league finish bottom 6 in results. Just as important as having those key role players is also utilizing them correctly in your roster.
The one key reason players struggle with manager games is because they forget one key aspect of what a manager needs to do. Balance long term with short term. Too many managers focus on the current and very near future and it bites them big 3 or 4 seasons from then. This is most commonly seen in excessive youth movement teams and on teams that give out too many long term contracts.
Time for me to start on the bigger part of this. However before that a forward note. The most important thing has nothing to do with the players on your team, the tactics or anything in game really. It is all about you. More specifically you identifying what kind of team you want. What do you want the identity of your team to be? That is by far the most important thing. Do you want an all out speed team like the Pittsburgh Penguins? A physical team like the Boston Bruins? A skill possession team like the Montreal Canadiens? Without an identity for your team it is more likely to end up relying mostly on random luck for good seasons and looking mostly like the Edmonton Oilers of the past 6 or 7 seasons on a more long term basis. The big thing here is identifying what you want the identity of your team to be, to stick to it and never lose sight of it. The identity you create for your team is the foundation for your team and the basis of which everything else relies. The second most important thing is again you. Specifically you learning what you need to know.
Now that I have said that let us look at how that applies in the most obvious way to your team. Tactics. First and foremost the "core" tactics. The core tactics are the basis of how your team will play on the ice. These core tactics are all under the tactics section and are; Offensive tactic, Defensive tactic, Power play and Penalty kill. These dictate the foundations of how your team plays on the ice. You should choose them based upon what I said above regarding your chosen team identity. Also once you make a decision on what you will use stick to it as changing one of these will have profound negative impacts to the play of your team for an extended period until they get familiar with the new core tactic. So what is the difference between them and what kind of players skill wise do you need to make them work successfully?
Tactics disclaimer: I would love to get deep into the details of these tactics but honestly I can't. The tactics in this game have been simplified to a great deal to the point where multiple and very drastically different things are combined into the same categories. For example in the offensive section below almost every NHL team crashes the net and plays dump and chase to some degree while having a puck possession focused offense. Honestly though the tactics being this way is likely for the better for newer players so as not to overwhelm them.
Offensive tactics
Crash the Net: This is very simple. Puck and players to the net. In real life this isn't a tactic so much as it is a way of life. Hockey players are preached to crash the net. "Go to the net and good things will happen," "throw the puck to the net because anything could happen" and "there is no such thing as a bad shot" (there actually is) are things you commonly hear if you watch NHL games.
What do you need for this tactic? Players high in the physical attribute. Bigger sized players are also a plus. The good about this tactic: You only need one skill to make it work and it is very simple. The Bad: You NEED one skill to make it work or it will not work at all, it is heavily reliant on your players to have higher physical skills and be bigger than the opposing defensemen for it to work, it is simple and very easy to counter.
This tactic is the least efficient tactic out there and the most reliant on the opposing team being weak to it makes it pretty much not worth it. This tactic isn't garbage. it is just over reliant on a few things making it a very situational tactic at best. Using a situational tactic all of the time isn't exactly an ideal situation.
Dump and Chase: This is all about getting the puck deep and then getting the puck via a strong forecheck. This tactic is less about skill and more about the defensive posture of the opposing team through the neutral zone. If the defensive posture is "up" then a dump and chase is a very good tactic to use. However that is in a real hockey game.
What do you need for this tactic? Speed and physical skills predominantly. Like above bigger sized players are a plus. The good: This tactic is all about using your teams physical attributes to the greatest possible effect. It isn't overly reliant on puck skills. The bad: Due to the aggressive hitting nature of this tactic over aggressive players will take a lot of penalties, considering that your team will take more penalties off of the bat as it is that could really kill any momentum your team builds on a regular basis making it difficult for your team to generate much offense.
This tactic is still very reliant on a players physical skill so not having a lot of forwards with high physical ratings will hurt this offense a lot. This tactic and the tactic above are the two physically focused offensive styles. The dump and chase is the more versatile of the two as it is less reliant on the opponent and their skills and more about your own players and theirs.
Puck possession: This is all about controlling the puck in the opponents end by passing the puck around. This tactic is the basis of most modern hockey offenses. Even the LA Kings use a puck possession offense with a heavy influence of physical play whereas the Chicago Blackhawks use a more finesse based puck possession style.
What you need: Puck handling and passing and then more puck handling and passing and then even more. The Good: This tactic is all about the puck skills of your players. This is the most difficult offense to stop with a skilled team. The bad: This is the most difficult offense to run because it is exceptionally reliant on the puck skills of your players.
This tactic is very high risk high reward in nature. As a result if you don't do things right things can very easily go very wrong with this tactic. You don't need fast or physical players but that will definitely help.
Transition rushes: This is all about counter attacking quickly. Get the puck and get it up ice quickly trying to create odd man rushes. However in the real life game this is not an offensive strategy per se and more another part of the game altogether.
What you need: A lot of skating, passing and puck handling. The good: Very aggressive and fast offensive tactic that aims to take advantage of both the speed and skill of your players. The bad: This tactic has the most demands from the players as they need to be fast, good puck handlers and passers.
Like puck possession this is high risk high reward but it is also the tactic that demands the most out of the players which demands the most out of you as well as you need the right players for this tactic to work. Also this tactic has some reliance on the opposing team as well making it that much more harder to implement successfully.
Defensive tactics coming up hopefully shortly.
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Player Basics
This section is all about the basics you need to know about your players. Player skills and roles combined into one, profiles and training will be covered here.
Player skills and roles: First I am going to break down the players into 3. Forwards, defensemen and goalies. The reasoning relates to one skill. Faceoffs. Anybody can play the center position. However you want the most highly skilled players at faceoffs to be taking faceoffs no matter if they are a center or forward. On that note faceoffs shows how good a player is at faceoffs.
Skating shows how good a skater the player is. The importance of this skill is relevant to the team tactics you choose to use. That, along with other such information, will be covered later. Passing and puck handling show how good a player is at passing and puck handling. Combined these two skills are used to determine how good the player is at playing in a playmaker role as a forward. Shooting is about how good a shooter the player is and alone is used to determine how good the player is at playing a sniper role as a forward. Defense shows how good the player is at defense and is used to determine how good the player is at in playing the two way role as a forward. Physical is a representation of how physical the player plays. This is used to determine 2 roles. In the power forward role physical is combined with shooting and passing to determine how good the player will be for that role as a forward. A power forward is a forward that plays physical and has offensive skill. Physical is also used in combination with the players actual size (height and weight) to determine how good of an enforcer role the player can fill as a forward. Spirit, according to the old help system was a determination of how willing the player was to block shots and how hard the player back checked. Basically I sum it up as how much the player is willing to put into each game in terms of giving it all for the team. In terms of player roles this is used to determine how good a player would be as a grinder in the forward role. Endurance shows how much the player can do before getting tired.
You may have noticed that I didn't include defensive player roles. The reasoning is simple. I don't think they work quite the way they should. So far as I can tell for a defenseman to be good at the two way role a defender has to be good in a defensive or offensive role first. There is a reason that I think this. I have never seen a defenseman that was only good at being a two way. However all the time I see a defender that is good at being offensive or defensive. If a requirement for one role is to be good at another first i don't think something is right.
The question then inevitably turns into what skills are most important for my forwards/Dmen? Well that is mostly determined by what team tactics and to a lesser degree line tactics you chose to use which again will be covered later. However I will say a few things now that I think are more basic. First will be the concession that, arguably, the most important skill for a majority of your defensemen is defense and everything else is secondary. Second that you will need some passers, scorers and pk players. Also right handed players are more likely to score more than left handed players. If you see two players with 85 in shooting with one being left handed and the other right the right handed player will be more likely to score more goals. So far as I can tell that is the only difference between right handed players and left. That being said you don't need to have but maybe one or two right handed shooter. Also player overall means nothing outside of base values for contract negotiations with players. The players individual skills are much more important than a players overall. An 85 overall player is not instantly better than an 81 overall player because of higher overall. Height and weight seem to not matter too much however the game ratings given to players is biased to physical players.
What about goalies? Goalies have their own skills so covering them separately seemed to be appropriate. Also there is an order of importance for skills when it comes to goalies that will pretty much never change. So here are the goalie skills grouped in order of importance and what they show. (And before anyone gets upset about me revealing something so "important" this stuff should be obvious to everyone outside of managers relatively new to hockey management games that know nothing about hockey. Also this is a guide. A guide is meant to help a player get better. A good game guide gets into the details of a game so players can understand what and why things work the way they do in game. Moving on.) Reflexes, positioning and athletics. These are the three skills that directly relate to a goalies ability to make saves and that is the primary function of your goalies. Reflexes show how quickly your goalie can react, positioning how well the goalie is at positioning themselves to the puck relative to the net and athletics is how mobile the goalie is. Puck control and spirit. These are two "modifier" skills. Puck control is how well the goalie can control their rebounds and spirit is again how all out the goalie is willing to go. The last two skills pretty much don't matter. Endurance and Puck handling. Puck handling is how well the goalie can play the puck. Endurance seems to mean nothing on a goalie since all goalies seem to be able to go the same number of games before getting tired. Also goalies that are tired seem to show no drop off in play due to fatigue.
Player Profiles: First it needs to be said that there are 2 hidden traits. Potential and greed. Potential is how good the player can be. Greed is how much money the player wants. The visible traits are ego, dirty, leadership, big games and ambition. Ego is how big of an ego the player has. Players with bigger egos can potentially be locker room problems. Dirty is how dirty the player plays. The more dirty they play the more likely they are to take penalties. Leadership is how good of a leader the player can be. Big games is how well a player can handle pressure. Ambition is how much desire the player has to be the best they possibly can be.
Training: Training can be focused one of three ways. Offensive, general and defensive. The differences between them is dictated by the team tactics you choose as those dictate what your players focus on training the most. Intensity is how hard the player trains. There is no reason to not be training on hard. Even if a player is all 99 they should be training on hard because it helps them keep that rating. Hard intensity training can also help delay a players regression due to age. If a player is getting tired give them less playing time so you can keep them on hard training.
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This is a general user guide. For now it will be split up into 4 sections but I am saving room for one more just in case. Please know that this is never complete and is always an ongoing project with the work in progress label as nobody except for Anders knows everything about this game and even the best of us are constantly learning about this game. This will be bare to start with but I plan on having most of it filled to some degree within about a week or two depending upon the time available to me.
The 4 sections will be as follows. Team Basics, Player Basics, Team Advanced and Player Advanced. The 5th I am saving for something unforeseen or not thought of in advanced and may eventually just be used as a frequently asked questions list. If I end up needing more than 5. Umm... Oops. I'll make it work.
Team Basics
This section is all about the very basics on how to run a team. The topics covered here will be roster, cap, line and tactic basics. The very first thing to do is learn your team. Since player basics is the second part we will be getting more in depth with the player part there and we will skip to the roster in general.
Roster basics: The most obvious thing is that you need 18 skaters and 2 goalies at minimum. In an ideal situation you would also want 2 or 3 forwards and 1 or 2 defensemen as scratches in case of injury. Injuries happen. It is inevitable. It is best to be prepared for when it does happen so you aren't scrambling when it does. Beyond this part, in which many have probably rolled their eyes at, the only other things to really address here is team spirit and team reputation. Team spirit has 3 things underneath it. Confidence shows exactly how confidant your team is in its play. It will be more likely to grow with positive overall team results. Teamwork shows how well your team plays together. Winner instinct is basically a teams "it" factor. Does the team have "it" in them to consistently pull out wins in meaningful games.
Cap basics: A GHL team has a cap of 60 million to play with. SHL 15 million, BHL 4.5 million, IHL, 1.5 million and LIHL 750k. Every player has a contract that lasts a certain number of seasons. Contracts can have clauses as well. a Promotion clause means that the if the player remains on the team and the team promotes to a higher league the salary of the player will go up in proportion with the new salary. A one way clause means that the player will not go down to a lower league no matter what.
Line basics: Each forward line needs 3 skaters. Each defensive line 2 skaters. For the C position any skater can play it so you want to be playing the players with the best face off rating regardless of position. Also you want your best shooter not playing at C to be on the side opposite their handedness. This is called playing the off-wing. It allows this player to get better quality shots on net.
Tactic basics: Team tactics work in a rock, paper, scissors fashion. Each offensive and defensive system has strengths and weaknesses. However these tactics have a say in how your players develop, how your team performs and the team has to get familiar with the team tactic. When it comes to team tactics it is best to choose one based upon how you want you team to play in the long run. This is because when you change team tactics there is a "learning" period that the team has to go through and it will perform worse in the process. The players will adapt to the system. Line tactics (aka line settings) however do not work in a rock, paper, scissors fashion. Rather there basically are instructions to the players on how to play within the team system. Also they can be changed game to game without worry of change in the quality of team play.
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There are some goalies I would like in return (Wax, Štulreiter, Kivinen, Eure), but mostly I cannot send offer as there is cap issue on the other side.
None of those teams need a goalie to make them successful considering they already have said goalies they need in the ones you want. Not to mention the only returns they should be accepting, (based upon their actual needs) should they accept a trade for the goalies they are building their teams around, are trades that you said in the post above that you wouldn't be willing to make or I know straight up you wouldn't be willing to make. So unless you manage to pull off a(nother) rip off job those trades are so not going to happen. Just be happy with Bublik.
For the record I have had about half the current GHL managers PM me their displeasure with your AI trade history at different times in the past so this post isn't me "just being salty" over you dominating the GHL with a team vastly superior to most of the rest of us for what will be 3 and likely 4 seasons. One even went so far as to say that they thought that your team should be forcibly disassembled. Short of the rest of the GHL managers saying such nobody knows if they are aware but I would think most of the rest do since they were around to see it. Before I possibly turn this into a rant due to your audacity to post most of what you did Bouncer I am stopping here. To everyone, including you Bouncer, use this thread only for season 6 trade talk for game world Bravo. That is what this thread is intended for. Leave this part of the discussion for PMs and the chat in the game world as it doesn't belong here.
HurjaHerra reacted to this -
Also, to be fair, I think Rainsilent tried to do a trade with me as well for a draft pick that I turned down, so I think he was hedging his bets on all the bottom teams that he could get 1 or 2 at the very least. Smart, but yeah, with 1-2 of the teams being AI, maybe a bit gray.
That wasn't me. It was a SHL team trying to take all of the bottom end GHL teams draft picks via very lopsided trades. It was the same person that was being discussed at the top of this thread. I have asked Anders to revert the trades that player made but he is unsure if he will be able to before the next season starts.
As for shutting down human to AI trades it would be doable for game world Biscuit that has the player population but for the leagues that are not near as full it isn't an ideal option. In some game worlds there are some leagues where there are only a few human managers.
The second suggestion I am not comfortable with and Anders has said such as well if I am not mistaken. Or at the least that is the impression that I have gotten. When Anders has the time, as of current, he can deal with them. They just have to be reported to him. Should this game double in size that may become a bit of a necessary evil to bring in.
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Ideally with the most recent changes of hiding potential and greed the gap will get smaller. Mind you an elite SHL team should not immediately be a playoff GHL squad without a few additions no matter what but they shouldn't be bottom of the table automatically either.
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My concern was going to a game called xperteleven. That game likely had, and very well still may, at one point over 1000 game worlds due to someones ability to create their own game world outside of the standard tournament one. What happened there is that a number of "gamemaster" level people were caught only allowing the better players to their friends teams in a competitive league.
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I understand that, but in that case he should have played the way to demote to SHL, if his team was not good for GHL.
I can imagine maybe a better way - have a button to report suspicious trade by anyone and then Anders and few GM enrolled from enthusiastic players, like rainsilent, to have access on all worlds and solve these issues by simply reverting trades where they agree on cheating or exploiting the CPU/Trade meter. If user has 3 suspicious trades, he can be banned from the game for some time or completely etc.
His friend actually took over a pretty good team that just needed a goalie and a few Dmen to be a seriously competitive team. By the time he came back from his vacation status his team lost about 1/3rd of the best players it had. Some of them for not much in return.
As for your better way of having the report button I am completely behind. From there however I don't know where to take it in terms of how to do it. Straight to Anders would just flood him with way too much. Giving a few players control is a rather scary proposition given what I have seen happen on other online manager games. I think best scenario for such a thing might be that a reported trade goes to a "review board" made up of a number of players. The players debate and vote on the fairness. If they say no it goes to Anders for final decision on a revert with the reasoning as to why it was voted no. Even that however has issues. Chiefly that you are potentially asking for a lot of time on the side from a number of people. Not a lot of people are going to have that time to dedicate.
Also I would change the ban part to be strictly to making trades rather than banning from the game on the whole. As much as abusing the AI is unsportsmanlike to do it isn't direct cheating like multiple accounts. Thus getting banned from the game for abusing the AI via trades is a bit steep. Losing trading privileges for a time however is more reasonable.
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If you don't want to jump up for that reason than you may be "waiting" for 3 or more seasons. Can't say I blame you either. So far as I know there isn't a game world that has gone on long enough to see it the most recent update has leveled the competition somewhat at the GHL level. Also pretty much no matter what there will, and should, be a gap between the best SHL teams and better GHL teams. However the gap as of current, thanks to some managers exploiting the AI, is rather excessive. A very good SHL team should only need a few high end players to be able to keep up when promoting in theory. Thanks to the AI trade abuse that happened in the past you currently need to completely redo your roster. I am really looking forward to several seasons down the road where the advantages from the trade abusing has gone away.
As for the user on holiday trades I would be behind a suggestion from the past of not letting the AI decide on trades for your team. Just have the trades sit and wait until the user gets back or is tossed from the team due to inactivity.
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What I did notice is managers not wanting to trade for players they need and if they got traded with the CPU, they suddenly start trading with the CPU to get those players... And that's usually arranged within the first days. Coincidence? I don't think so.
I mean that's kinda frustrating in many ways.
Especially when they trade for said player and in return sent the CPU the player you requested in return.
That being said the CPU will send trades to human players. The ones I have seen sent my way have been... awkward to say the least. Case in point one I received very recently from the Campbell Nighthawks. The CPU, a number of days after the team went to CPU control, offered Jose Hanson for Leonardo Adame. This is actually the 3rd time that the CPU has offered me a high caliber player for a younger player with a high trade value. All such trades I have declined, at least unofficially as I haven't been able to decline the offer from the Nighthawks because it will not bring the offer up again for me to decline it (I did look at it the day it was offered to me) but it still is there.
Current trade offers
Team Offered Status Action
Campbell Nighthawks 7 days ago Your call Respond
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That requires all in the league to be in on it. There are a number of managers that have in the past or do actively exploit the AI in this game world with not many visiting the forums. Thus a gentleman rule likely will not work due to the current situation. A "harder" approach of reporting to Anders is likely the best solution here sadly. Reporting said trades by bringing them up in the game world chat box however will serve as an in world memo that it isn't appropriate to be doing such things for the many that likely don't visit the forums.
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Don't be so quick to say any of that guys. First I PMed Anders about it already. Second the person traded with teams that are 13th through 16th in the GHL standings. If all 3 of those teams demote ALL of the draft picks the person is trading for become SHL draft picks. It is why I have been trying to really encourage Steve, with the currently 14th place team, to do what he can to stay above 15th and doing everything I can to get those other teams teams to demote. (Edit required here. Sorry to the "new" person with the currently 14th place team but I want to see your team demote because of what this guy did before you took the team over. Should Anders revert all the trades involved with what the player in question did my stance completely changes.) Of course one will have to lose down to the SHL in the playoffs but we can ask Anders to revert the latest trade at least if not all of them.
I also traded for the persons own draft picks that they traded to one of the AI teams because should the person promote than their picks become top 4 GHL draft picks. I will be asking Anders to revert said trade that I made for his picks after the playoffs begin so the AI team he gave the picks to will keep them so the player cant trade back for them should the person wise up so to speak.
Yes the person is exploiting the AI to an extreme degree but they are really failing hard at doing it since at least 2 of the picks will end up SHL draft picks (not high end GHL draft picks) if Steve can keep his team 14th or better. Also this is the same manager that for 2 seasons was at the bottom of the GHL Biscuit standings (with a lot of bad signings to go with it) so they aren't very good at running a team as it is. Edit 2: fun fact they were running one of the teams that they took a 1st round pick from just last season.
No exploiting the AI, or any game mechanics for that matter, isn't directly cheating but it is on the same level and very unsportsmanlike to do. That is why so many online games punish players via bans for using exploits. Exploiting the AI via trades should not be accepted, it should be brought up in the game world chat box (NOT IN THE FORUMS, the chat box is on a much more private level and brings attention to the exploit trade for all in the world to see. Also do not slander the person of offense. Just bring up the trade in question for others in the game world to see so it can be reported and investigated) and exposed to Anders via some type of report to him.
Someone smarter than this guy could be stealing what are likely to be top 4 GHL picks though by going after the right picks which is why I have been asking Anders to lock draft pick trading with AI teams before this person started these trades.
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There would be some good to it for us, which I would really enjoy, but it really would mess with the point of team familiarity regarding the tactics making it a pointless thing to have when we really need it badly. Thus I really do think it is a bad idea to add into the game.
Take for example what I would do. I would have 2 polar opposite styles like puck possession and dump and chase for offense and moderate forecheck with say spread. What this would do is allow me to use 2 very different systems and basically have 2 different teams at both ends at the ready at a moments notice. No NHL team can do that. The LA Kings don't have a speed possession game in their pocket that they can turn to and the Penguins don't have a heavy power game that they can turn to yet your suggestion would basically give me that if I wanted it.
The point of the team familiarity is to basically lock a team into one tactical system making you make a tough decision on how you want your team to play. Like in the NHL if you make a change it will bring a noticeable negative impact in your teams play until they get familiar with the new system. Also like the NHL it allows other teams to read into how your team plays and potentially counter it my making adjustments within their own system. This system has a very positive effect on this game. I have played other hockey manager games out there without this familiarity system and managers were abusing tactics changes that would be impossible to do in reality. Personally I'd rather have the realism effect here.
Also one final thing to add that would make your suggestion that much more tricky. The tactics you have set influences your players training. The skills most required for the tactics you have chosen will be trained slightly more than others not as relevant. How would this be modified to work with your 2 system suggestion? You can't have both affecting training. That would allow managers to abuse said system by having 2 tactics that either train the same skills to boost certain skills that much more or by using 2 different systems to train the ultimate players faster.
Overall while your suggestion is a good one from our perspective of the managers game play wise it is only going to have far reaching negative impacts. Ones that we really could do without.
Edit: sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure I made everything as clear as possible.
HurjaHerra reacted to this -
Actually real life teams don't have a "secondary" tactic. They use 1 tactic that the players freelance with in game. However different lines will play with different styles and focuses within that same system to accomplish different things. This is represented in game quite well. In terms of game to game adjustments there are no major changes done as teams stick to the one tactic and just do different things within it.
The issue with this game tactically is that it is extremely basic and tries to combine a lot into very little. It is done for simplicity's sake so as not to overwhelm players that don't have a lot of in depth knowledge of hockey. As a result a number of things get combined that really shouldn't be. For example breakouts and offensive zone styles are combined into one as your offensive systems as is forechecks and neutral zone systems to make the defensive systems. Sure they blend into each other but they are not the same. Also there is no true defensive zone system in this game to choose from outside of when your team is on the PK. Trying to code a more realistic and complex tactical set to use is a massive amount of work and time and if implemented would likely completely overwhelm all but the more astute in hockey tactics among us here. The current system in place is, although not perfect, pretty good for what it is compared to other games. There are flaws with it sure but having a second tactic definitely isn't one of them. Professional teams don't use a second tactic.
HurjaHerra reacted to this -
The point of the "Like This" button is for OTHER people to appreciate your comments. Let's leave that to them. Our job is to contribute to the community in a manner that makes it better. Liking your own comments doesn't serve such a purpose. We've had cases in the past like this, all it'll get you is a bad rep.
Case in point kuensami. Never did I say you were a tool or egocentric fool. Just that liking your own posts gives the impression that that is what your character is. It would really behoove you to recognize the difference between "looking like" and "you are." I said look like and looking like. Never did I say you were. Not trying to be rude, just giving it to you straight.
This community is small not because of any community negativity but because the game is very new and has had virtually no exposure beyond word of mouth.
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Of course I am putting the blame on the "inanimate thing" because the "inanimate thing" is the problem. It is far too easy for managers to abuse the CPUs and gain an enormous advantage over managers who do not abuse the CPUs. The simplest, easiest, most reasonable (read: not extreme) measure to take is to prevent managers from trading with CPUs. That's not extreme at all. An extreme measure would be to remove trading altogether, but that's not what I'm proposing. I'm also not proposing punishing managers who have already abused the system. They used the rules to their advantage and benefited enormously, so the rules need to be changed from here on out to give those of us who do not abuse the rules a chance to compete.
Surely you're not denying the advantage teams get by abusing the CPUs, are you? If teams are able to accumulate tons of first round draft picks and top players, what chance do new players have to compete? That's no way to encourage new managers to join the game when they have no realistic chance to compete at the highest level with teams that have the best players, best prospects, and best picks; it basically eliminates the purpose of the draft...
And also, the community will remain small if we don't fix this problem. As evidence by OP, we're already losing players to this issue.
It is an extreme measure when there are still a number of leagues in which there are too few human managers that want to trade or even just to trade with.
Also putting the blame on the inanimate thing is extremely absurd. Especially since the inanimate thing is not the problem in any way. Blaming the inanimate thing completely bypasses the fact that people are abusing said thing. People abusing is the issue. Not said thing being abused.
Finally since you seem to be rather oblivious to sections of my prior post that you responded to, and my post history in these forums, I am very much concerned about the population of this game and the well being of new players. Your solution is much more likely to seriously hurt and hamper new players until this game gets a much bigger population rather than actually help. New players can only join at the BHL level or lower. Most CPU trade abuse is happening at the GHL and SHL levels. That is above and out of touch of new players if you can't tell.
Why not? I have yet to say something I don't like.
To reiterate on what he means by "it makes you look bad" in a still relatively forum friendly manner you look like a tool doing it. However, to put it more blunt, if you don't mind looking like an egotistical fool go ahead and keep doing it.
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Clearly teams are taking advantage of CPUs by acquiring all their draft picks and top players. Look at the top teams in this league - almost every one of them abused the system to gain an unfair advantage. Trading with CPUs creates an enormous disparity between player-controlled teams who do not abuse the game and player-controlled teams who DO abuse the game. That's a problem, and it needs to be fixed ASAP.
The simplest way to fix this problem is NOT by "making [trading with CPUs] more difficult" but to ban trading with CPUs entirely. Between free agency, trading with player-controlled teams, and youth draft, there's no reason a player-controlled team should have to trade with CPUs to fill their roster.
Whether this game is "heading in the right direction" or not is irrelevant; trading with CPUs is a feature that is ruining the game.
The ability to trade with the CPU is not ruining the game. Players abusing the CPU via being able to trade with them is ruining the game. There is a massive difference. Your putting the blame and responsibility of the issue on an inanimate thing rather than the people abusing the thing. Thus you are wanting to take an extreme measure to fix said issue.
Completely removing the ability to trade with CPU controlled teams is an extreme measure that should only be used as a last resort. It still is a critical feature that, in some leagues (note I said leagues not worlds,) is still very needed due to the lack of managers that are either willing to make a fair trade, understand negotiating a trade or just have too few human players to trade with. Thus removing the ability to make a trade with the CPU would only be a big negative impact.
I get why you and others are calling for the removal of trading with the CPU but it isn't the best solution to the problem at hand by far. The player population is still just too low, at least in the game world I am in, for that solution to be a good one. The ability to trade with the CPU is not ruining the game. Other players abusing the CPU in trades is. Fixing the CPU trade logic to lessen the ability to abuse the CPU in trades is the way to go given the entire picture with this game.
Also you guys could be sending PMs to Anders about such abusive trades asking for them to be reverted. You also could be posting them in topics although that is a seriously bad way of going about it. Either way it would be a lot of extra work for Anders if there were a lot of trades to revert.
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If I may point out other managers showing blatant disrespect to other fellow managers playing the game by exploiting the cpu in trades has nothing to do with the game being properly thought out in any way. It is just other players being ****s because they can. It is a problem in every game with some form of multiplayer. Anders is taking steps to make it harder for such players to continue to do this in the future. Also you could try asking Anders to revert (undo) these trades that you take issue with. I get that a number of players currently with top teams got them, to varying degrees, via exploiting the cpu via unfair trades. However this game is definitely heading in a direction where manager skill will trump those that are currently finding success via exploits rather than any sort of skill.
If you are just too fed up and would rather leave that is your call, and it would be disappointing to see you go, but I would push that you try to stick around as this game is going in the right direction in regards of attempting to make it more difficult for players to exploit the cpu.
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Sorry koekefix but I'm against a salary cap increase because it makes it easier for the best teams to stay on top of the league. If you keep the salary cap low, you have to make some choices and good players become available for other team. I understand it is frustrating to get rid of players but it makes the league more competitive and gives a chance to everyone to rise and shine.
To add a bit to this look at the Blackhawks. They are an extreme example due to a number of very high contract players but there are a number of teams near the cap in the NHL for various reasons. Either way there are a a few FAs each season that the team that had them could not resign them due to cap and the player ended up in FA, some instances the player gets traded at the deadline but either way they end up in FA.
Do I think there needs to be an increase in the cap? I don't know. I haven't seen what a GHL looks like 10 years after the start. However what I will say is that the ONLY reason the cap needs to be increased for the GHL, in my opinion, is if there are a number of high end GHL players are going unsigned in FA due to every team not having the cap space to sign said players because player demands have become universally too high. Until that happens top teams should be facing salary crunches so skilled players get spread across the league. Having the best team should come down to skilled and smart managers. That does not involve cap increases that allows top teams to keep their high quality teams by giving them more cap space to keep more of the best players. As I said teams should be facing salary crunches. That would force managers to get creative and smart when it comes to managing player contracts, utilizing players available and cap space to maximum effect. I'd rather a post 2004 NHL like situation where teams have to seriously consider cap space over a pre 2004 NHL like situation where certain teams can basically get and keep the best players available.
It has been said that a one time increase is planned for the next update. For all we know there is evidence that many of us have not seen where an increase is justified. I know if I ran this game that I would be running a private hidden league for research and testing purposes related to changes that may or may not work. This game does have its own version but it is semi public. My big question is how big of an increase are we talking about?
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Ok so this is what I guess is what is happening. Your team was relatively fine last year due to team confidence being high as it made up for the lack of familiarity to a degree. However it also really explains why near the end of last season why your team suddenly struggled in a stretch of games as your team performance still did drop off. However at the start of the new season due to confidence being reset your team defensively has been much more fragile while making mistakes as they have continued to learn the defensive system and other teams that are familiar with their offensive systems have been scoring on your team as a result when usually they wouldn't. Thus I think it is safe to say that what is going on is a great example of what happens when you switch your offensive or defensive tactics later when there are a number of set teams thus justifying my advice I give of just pick the tactics you want to use early no matter what players you have and just stick with it rather than switching later. As the game from today showed your team will start playing to up to its full potential if you show patience. Also there is no fn way your team is relegating. Its too good to stay near relegation. You switching defensive tactics is likely the source of all of this havoc going on with your team. Once your team is familiar enough with the new defensive tactic your team will rebound and it will start dominating and making its way up the standings. Your team will be in the playoffs short of some extreme events, or you switching tactics a few more times.
Edit: Finally in my opinion the defensive tactic switch, if it was in play during the playoffs, cost you a near sure championship last year. Granted that it is hard to say how the series would have gone if the finals had been you and Yann but I would have put my money on you. A seriously hampered by key injuries Protons team beat yours in a very exciting to watch for me 2-1 series. I don't know if the defensive tactic switch was in play or not but if it was it cost you the series and very possibly a championship.
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You didn't. As I tried to explain (I was pretty sure it was going to look that way but I just have a very direct approach to a conversation. I try to dial it back but it is difficult at times.) I gave that list for you to look them up so you could form your own opinion. I am not a fan of telling people what to think or making them think that I am absolutely right. I would rather give you reliable information and let you decide on your own. Hence giving you the list of players and asking you to form your own opinion. I will share my stance and opinion but outside of absolutes I would rather people make their own opinions and decisions. It is why I didn't tell you and Wizard that you had to play players on the off wing in game. Instead I gave the positives and negatives, both in real life and in game, and then left it open ended as to what you should do.