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Release: Fall 2018 (Just to keep you posted!)


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#41

Posted August 08, 2018 - 03:07 AM

bouncer

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Oh, I'm Patron, so I have my password for the focus group... never used it :) Nevermind.

 

What I wanted to ask - do you have a date for the update to take place? Fall 2018 basically starts in 6 weeks...



#42

Posted August 08, 2018 - 04:54 AM

Glawing

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Thanks for all the response!

 

We know it is not the ideal way to go by making it a subscription but as Anders saying if we not do this we would have ended the game. By this the game will get a chance to stay alive and grow and be bigger/better.

 

We looked at other suggestions like ads/getting financial help. Either you guys need to buy alot of commercial "junk" or you have to pay even more because if we would get financial help it would cost alot more in the end!

 

With the subscription comes responsibility from us to you! We will strive to get many more players of course and to do so we need marketing and as you all know marketing cost alot of money. We hope that many as possible will continue playing the game of course!

 

Please give us feedback because we want you to be happy about the game performance and experience. So you would recommend this to your pals!



#43

Posted August 08, 2018 - 10:07 AM

Paul T

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I am a fan of all the changes/improvements being made for the upcoming release and appreciate all the work being done to make it happen.  I do have a few other ideas that may be beneficial for the game, but will wait to post them when I have more time to elaborate - most likely in the focus group.  Just one question and one comment for now.

 

TIMING:  Bouncer asked above and I will ask again... is there an approximate date for the release?  Are we talking closer to September or November?

 

FINANCES:  Personally, I have no issue with the monthly fee and plan to support the game, but I do share some of the concerns already mentioned.  If people feel it's not worth it, then fine.  But I'm afraid there will be many people who simply can't contribute at this time (I've been in those situations before) and am concerned that with the expanded worlds and leagues there would be >50% computer managers, which would set the game back in quite a few ways.  I'd throw out some ideas, but feel it would be more appropriate to discuss privately when finances are involved.


*SEASON 16 TARNISHED SILVER BISCUIT PLATE CHAMPION*

 


#44

Posted August 08, 2018 - 10:36 AM

littleb

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My biggest concern with the subscription is not the subscription, I understand the need for that to compensate for all the work put in and for the investment.  My biggest concern is the price point as I think that is a pretty big ask on the amount.  

 

I have been doing numbers in my head, and just knowing my situation I don't think I would be able to contribute that much I already give above asking for the All star but that is about my limit so I will need to chop at least 1 team, perhaps 2 as my dollar stinks right now compared to almost any currency.  

 

If the price was lower you might make more money in the end with the added volume.  I am sure you thought of all this before determining the price you wanted to set so won't go much deeper into it.  I am just not confident it is at the right point that makes the most sense financially while keeping user levels to the point that it keeps it fun for people who would pay.



#45

Posted August 08, 2018 - 12:01 PM

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I respect each of the changes, but I fear the subscription idea will be the end of the road for a lot of the current users. A realistic expectation is that the managers that currently have All-Star accounts will probably pay the subscription and I suppose this will be the starting point. From then on, problems may arise.

 

First of all, the idea of a subscription means that many users will not afford it. What buys an icecream in the US or Sweden will feel far more costly in Eastern Europe, for example. Then there is a difference between choosing to contribute (through a donation or an All-Star account) and having to contribute. Psychologically it is easier to attract paying customers through the first option.

 

The biggest problem is that without a lot of marketing, the game will fail to attract a lot of paying users, so most worlds will be scarcely populated and the game will not be attractive even to those who will choose to pay for a few months. It will not have a community (like it was promising to do) but customers. I may be a sceptic, but I fail to see how new (paying) users will arive in large numbers.



#46

Posted August 08, 2018 - 12:27 PM

Red Fox

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If Anders and Tobias need the funds to keep the game alive, then a subscription fee is the only way unless they go down the route of "free to play" games which oftten turn out to be a microtransaction trap....(see Wargaming's games for example). We don't want that, do we?

 

If ad revenue is out of the question, I don't see any other solution.

 

EDIT: They could raise funs on a fundraiser website like Indiegogo or GoFundMe, I suppose.



#47

Posted August 08, 2018 - 02:02 PM

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Thanks for all your feedback! It's most valuable as always!

 

To answer the question regarding the release date, we're aiming to release in October. But it's not decided just yet. There is still so much to do so I'm not feeling confident enough to make any promises on a release date at this point.



#48

Posted August 09, 2018 - 12:37 AM

suomyyra

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Some in game message about reset and subscription might be in place since i know there are lots of managers that dont read the forum.


Nice to hear that you are taking a next step with this game. More than happy to pay subscription.

#49

Posted August 09, 2018 - 02:57 AM

bouncer

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I guess it is too late to find a different solution - but for me the way how to get revenue from the game would be following:

1. Get more users in current or new game design (but still free with some supporting like all-star from Patreon, funding pages etc.), achieve number in thousands.

2. Prepare new update with improved all-star account (include basically all functions that are not necessary to win) - for example free user can have only 1 team in any world, all-star can participate in several worlds (and perhaps have type of account different for number of teams... by price obviously), all-star would have jersey, logo editor, assistant reports etc.

I guess at least 10-20% of the users would pay ~4 usd per month for such all-star, which is not enough now, but with thousands of users it can be just what guys are looking for - for them it does not make a difference if they have 200 paying out of 200 managers in total or 200 paying out of 2000 managers in total, but for the game world experience the more is better and obviously more people will likely attract more new managers. I'm just afraid there will be ~100-200 managers after the fall update and it will not be enough to have a good game world experience as expected. 



#50

Posted August 09, 2018 - 07:17 AM

Red Fox

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Limiting assistant reports to all star accounts would be the definition of pay to win...

#51

Posted August 09, 2018 - 07:25 AM

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Not really, ET. I'm not reading assistant report as it is confusing, sometimes even contradicting within one report, and I have 5 golden cups and was top2 team in last 10 seasons or so. 

You can do your own analysis and it will be better than what is written in assistant report - it is just feature that will make it easier for you and that should be the right base of an all-star account. You should not get anything that will help you win, but you should get various tools and statistics that will make the user experience better - from ad-free page, through tools to design your team (logo, jersey or possibility to add nickname for you players etc.), up to better statistics and reports. That is how it is done in best manager games around the web. 



#52

Posted August 09, 2018 - 07:27 AM

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That's just going down the rabbit hole this game shouldn't really do down, IMO.

#53

Posted August 09, 2018 - 08:03 AM

bouncer

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IMO, still better than loosing half of the active managers because they are not willing to pay that money... but this is not up to us. 



#54

Posted August 09, 2018 - 09:09 AM

Red Fox

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IMO, still better than loosing half of the active managers because they are not willing to pay that money... but this is not up to us. 

 

It's always better to ask for a nominal subscription fee to get the full game then making users feel like they have to pay to get more and more....



#55

Posted August 09, 2018 - 05:03 PM

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I have not read this whole thread, just cant find the energy too. my apologies if this is repetitive with what has been said. 

 

I, personally, have a habit of getting scared away from games going pay to play. With that said, i of course feel some need to see anders compensated.

 

of the most comparable games i have played:

 

One was a lesser, more flawed game. that one i actually put money into (its really bizarre for me), but left with a sort of credit still there. What i can say for that game, there were a lot of numbers that could be downloaded any put in spreadsheets or its own tool. It got me hooked on spreadsheets, its why it takes me most of a season in a slow world to set my draft order, i am inputting numbers (though i still dont go into individual atts). I dont know how many others do such things, but how hard would it be to create a downloadable csv or something where people could access the individual attributes of entire draft classes? or all the free agents? that way, if they wanted to, they could also make their own ratings if they dont have them already or sort by them. this would of course be a premium feature and could be called pay to win i suppose, if it is doable. i, if i remain cheap, would just spend way more hours than it is worth manually inputting. the other side is this doesnt necessarily reward those who spend time to put the work in so much

 

the other game i am more on a several year long vacation, i just cant seem to manage mulitple games a day with the timezone difference. that game had something called credits which people called pay to win but i and others managed to without it. I got very good at developing young players and used that to build up both in game funds and "credit deals" which were unofficial, but donations made by others when i agreed to sell cheap. there isnt selling in this game though, there is trading, and selling required other safeguards to prevent abuse. I told myself i was helping out there by hoarding credits others were all too happy to give me and just letting them sit in my account, pretending that was my way of helping out. It is micro-transactiony but perhaps premium features arent directly paid for necessarily. 4 dollars = X "credits" which coincides with a month of premium features, but someway for something which i have no idea what, they can be transferred. this opens all kinds of potential for abuse and is probably more trouble than it is worth, but could work with a sort of tiered features, where some pay more for more features, or choose what they want to unlock and allows customization if there are some aspects of premium they dont think is worth it. i think like name changing in that game was like 2 credits or something. or changing names of players which would be confusing here and always opens up the potential for abusive names (unless it is like a set list) or nationalities, etc. it would allow some to potentially pay more than the 4 dollars, but is arguably potentially pay-to-win-ish with balances hard to achieve. the other side of credit deals, which were common, but nothing official as they were limited donations, was that it accepted paysafe cards and other things. at times people bought forms of payment and sent the info to other managers in exchange as a part of deals, this was not officially supported other than as a means of payment, it was just something they had no control over to monitor it, so it was a wink wink, nudge nudge thing. it is how a lot of people got a few things unlocked. Again that game had a different economy and had to set limits on player sales, teams cant sell more than one a season to eachother i think, only so many credits can be sent to another person, or other people as a whole in a given season. I have no idea how to work it with trades, just spewing ideas for cooler heads to try and understand and implement. player for player + credit would i guess me a way, much how draft picks are thrown in at times

 

to back track to the earlier game, which is confusing without me really indicating what games they were. that one had things like playbooks were a premium feature at a time, additional play customization. it also had time periods where you had to have "playbooks" or premium features to trade draft picks, an additional convenience for those members supporting.

 

I dont know if any of this helps, just i scanned and saw people worried about losing players, and i am at least susceptable to being one of those runners. a subscription is likely already planned though and has additional security. payment options are probably hard to work with and cost money. there could be options where you automatically get X charged to a pay pal or a credit card per month to try to provide a bit more of that consistency, and options to automatically spend those credits on unlocking certain things. figuring out what, and how much sounds like a nightmare though, let along coding it. it is just more things that could go wrong, more fighting with users and needing to act as customer support, etc. its a lot more complicated potentially for anders. regardless, my natural instinct is to expand on the supporters get to customize thing. additional options, more access/easier access to certain info, and possibly some way to ingame transfer. how much of a nightmare would it be to retain salary in trades as a premium feature? promotion and relegation might make it a mess but maybe not. especially in any NA style non promotion leagues. either only some teams can do it (is that too pay to win like?) or it costs a credit of something to do it? or for each 10% retained/season? 

 

this is way too long, i should have just read the damn thread so i would actually know what is being talked about

 

edit: i am a 1 team person, and a slow league person (and a free player) so i have no right to say anything. as i was thinking, convincing myself to give anders what i think he dereves something occurred to me that wasnt an issue in other games. there is  a notion when you pay of getting the most for your money. Despite that i can barely handle my draft work for one slow team, if i pay, a part of me wants more game for my dollar. i suspect there could be more a push to faster leagues as people try to get more game for there money. alternatively, people doing the same could fill in some for teams lost if they open up more teams. with that said, i am not the person to say this, but there is a potential squeeze here. people who get more of the game, ie are in fast leagues or have multiple teams, could be charged more if its by the season and not the month. in the fastest leagues i dont think there is as much time especially as people get busy and need to sleep, so i am no means saying make it proportional by speed. Since it doesnt affect me, this is a dick move to even propose, but it is possible that having multiple teams could be a premium feature or charging by the season. then again if you charge less for a faster league that might also push people to those, and if they are like me (they likely arent?) i would not sleep and burn out fast in those and quit. the flat monthly might well be the most fair, just mentioning an option and that charging money for sure, by the month, might well make slower leagues ghost towns. it didnt even occur to me at first. the one game i tried to speak of was one world with tens of thousands of teams at one point and leagues were by country with lower leagues pyramiding out so that by the lower tiers there were dozens or hundreds of divisions in a league and they were filled with bots. the other game i just forgot there was different speeds, as slow in that league was once a week with fast being once a day. that one charged by season and a flat price, but i am not sure you can do that if people cant get back and are missing multiple games unless they can set automatic subs or rotations or injury contingencies 

 

edit 2: one game had you possibly watch ads for "credits" i did that till deals made me beyond rich in that department, ads on the side, etc dont bother me in the least



#56

Posted August 09, 2018 - 05:46 PM

Red Fox

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I have not read this whole thread, just cant find the energy too. my apologies if this is repetitive with what has been said. 

 

I, personally, have a habit of getting scared away from games going pay to play. With that said, i of course feel some need to see anders compensated.

 

of the most comparable games i have played:

 

One was a lesser, more flawed game. that one i actually put money into (its really bizarre for me), but left with a sort of credit still there. What i can say for that game, there were a lot of numbers that could be downloaded any put in spreadsheets or its own tool. It got me hooked on spreadsheets, its why it takes me most of a season in a slow world to set my draft order, i am inputting numbers (though i still dont go into individual atts). I dont know how many others do such things, but how hard would it be to create a downloadable csv or something where people could access the individual attributes of entire draft classes? or all the free agents? that way, if they wanted to, they could also make their own ratings if they dont have them already or sort by them. this would of course be a premium feature and could be called pay to win i suppose, if it is doable. i, if i remain cheap, would just spend way more hours than it is worth manually inputting. the other side is this doesnt necessarily reward those who spend time to put the work in so much

 

the other game i am more on a several year long vacation, i just cant seem to manage mulitple games a day with the timezone difference. that game had something called credits which people called pay to win but i and others managed to without it. I got very good at developing young players and used that to build up both in game funds and "credit deals" which were unofficial, but donations made by others when i agreed to sell cheap. there isnt selling in this game though, there is trading, and selling required other safeguards to prevent abuse. I told myself i was helping out there by hoarding credits others were all too happy to give me and just letting them sit in my account, pretending that was my way of helping out. It is micro-transactiony but perhaps premium features arent directly paid for necessarily. 4 dollars = X "credits" which coincides with a month of premium features, but someway for something which i have no idea what, they can be transferred. this opens all kinds of potential for abuse and is probably more trouble than it is worth, but could work with a sort of tiered features, where some pay more for more features, or choose what they want to unlock and allows customization if there are some aspects of premium they dont think is worth it. i think like name changing in that game was like 2 credits or something. or changing names of players which would be confusing here and always opens up the potential for abusive names (unless it is like a set list) or nationalities, etc. it would allow some to potentially pay more than the 4 dollars, but is arguably potentially pay-to-win-ish with balances hard to achieve. the other side of credit deals, which were common, but nothing official as they were limited donations, was that it accepted paysafe cards and other things. at times people bought forms of payment and sent the info to other managers in exchange as a part of deals, this was not officially supported other than as a means of payment, it was just something they had no control over to monitor it, so it was a wink wink, nudge nudge thing. it is how a lot of people got a few things unlocked. Again that game had a different economy and had to set limits on player sales, teams cant sell more than one a season to eachother i think, only so many credits can be sent to another person, or other people as a whole in a given season. I have no idea how to work it with trades, just spewing ideas for cooler heads to try and understand and implement. player for player + credit would i guess me a way, much how draft picks are thrown in at times

 

to back track to the earlier game, which is confusing without me really indicating what games they were. that one had things like playbooks were a premium feature at a time, additional play customization. it also had time periods where you had to have "playbooks" or premium features to trade draft picks, an additional convenience for those members supporting.

 

I dont know if any of this helps, just i scanned and saw people worried about losing players, and i am at least susceptable to being one of those runners. a subscription is likely already planned though and has additional security. payment options are probably hard to work with and cost money. there could be options where you automatically get X charged to a pay pal or a credit card per month to try to provide a bit more of that consistency, and options to automatically spend those credits on unlocking certain things. figuring out what, and how much sounds like a nightmare though, let along coding it. it is just more things that could go wrong, more fighting with users and needing to act as customer support, etc. its a lot more complicated potentially for anders. regardless, my natural instinct is to expand on the supporters get to customize thing. additional options, more access/easier access to certain info, and possibly some way to ingame transfer. how much of a nightmare would it be to retain salary in trades as a premium feature? promotion and relegation might make it a mess but maybe not. especially in any NA style non promotion leagues. either only some teams can do it (is that too pay to win like?) or it costs a credit of something to do it? or for each 10% retained/season? 

 

this is way too long, i should have just read the damn thread so i would actually know what is being talked about

 

edit: i am a 1 team person, and a slow league person (and a free player) so i have no right to say anything. as i was thinking, convincing myself to give anders what i think he dereves something occurred to me that wasnt an issue in other games. there is  a notion when you pay of getting the most for your money. Despite that i can barely handle my draft work for one slow team, if i pay, a part of me wants more game for my dollar. i suspect there could be more a push to faster leagues as people try to get more game for there money. alternatively, people doing the same could fill in some for teams lost if they open up more teams. with that said, i am not the person to say this, but there is a potential squeeze here. people who get more of the game, ie are in fast leagues or have multiple teams, could be charged more if its by the season and not the month. in the fastest leagues i dont think there is as much time especially as people get busy and need to sleep, so i am no means saying make it proportional by speed. Since it doesnt affect me, this is a dick move to even propose, but it is possible that having multiple teams could be a premium feature or charging by the season. then again if you charge less for a faster league that might also push people to those, and if they are like me (they likely arent?) i would not sleep and burn out fast in those and quit. the flat monthly might well be the most fair, just mentioning an option and that charging money for sure, by the month, might well make slower leagues ghost towns. it didnt even occur to me at first. the one game i tried to speak of was one world with tens of thousands of teams at one point and leagues were by country with lower leagues pyramiding out so that by the lower tiers there were dozens or hundreds of divisions in a league and they were filled with bots. the other game i just forgot there was different speeds, as slow in that league was once a week with fast being once a day. that one charged by season and a flat price, but i am not sure you can do that if people cant get back and are missing multiple games unless they can set automatic subs or rotations or injury contingencies 

 

I'm not sure if making spreadsheets and "credits" premium features is the way to go....like you said, it reeks of pay-to-win and microtransactions....it would be nice to play a game without worrying about "extra" stuff for once. :)



#57

Posted August 09, 2018 - 11:46 PM

Naekfor

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spreadsheets isnt premium, but making it easier could be a pretty big thing. what takes me a month (not constantly, obviously) to manually put in with likely errors could be done in minutes the day before the draft. also a game i played let people order id numbers and upload a draft order which would make it easier as well. with the bigger worlds, i will need the longer season to go through the entire draft...

 

 

on that note, one worry i have had since before the new ones, will juniors have simmed a few seasons before the first in the new world? my ratings are useless without that... then again if things change, as they seemingly will, they will likely be useless anyhow

 

the talk of community is nailing it in my mind. I am trying to convince myself to at least try it a few months, but especially if features are still trickling in and all the time ive sunk into my own (likely shit) formulas turn useless, it feels more like starting a new game than continuing. as others ive grown attached to my team, and though i have made moves to get older, the core i built when i started is just reaching mid 20s and i am in my first season after promotion. if those attachments are gone, meaningless arrays that they are, then i would be staying for the community. if littleb and other familiar names go, i will honestly spend all my time regretting money spent, which i tend to do anyways. 3.50 is doable, i do wish it was per season and not per month. 42 dollars is where it starts to get uncomfortable. i dont spend that much on games, ive loosened up to buying old games on sale. then i own them and i can go through them when i have time.  what the game has is community because 42 dollars per year, then a few years its 126 and it just starts to look like a bad purchase for me when a tenth that can get something on sale. i dont know. I had myself convinced to try it a few months and now i am swaying back the other way. i like anders, i like the game, i like the idea of anders making money, but its pretty much going to be a new game if substantial people are leaving, and if i had joined a game where i was to pay after the first month, id have at best quit after a few days if i gave it a chance at all. 

 

 

my intention was to provide things that could make the game easier and customizable rather than true advantages. i vastly prefer to spend a couple actual years as a feeder team building up resources then go win a title than pay to play. to me, i just assumed there were tons of pay to play games where there wasnt extra stuff. i have actually never, i think, paid monthly fees for a game. ive put some money into games, but generally that was when i was under the impression the things i got from that would last. when the game changed and those things went away and required monthly payments, i left, even with still some funds of a sort there. ET please dont take this personally, but from my perspective I think i have possibly disagreed with every single comment you have posted in this thread (finally made myself read it all, sorry for the spam) just different perspectives. there is separate leagues, some where you pay per month and get everything, other ones where you can unlock everything for the same price, but you can unlock some features for less or none at all for free. i might pay a dollar to not have to input all those number manually as that is where i spend the vast majority of my time in this game. a dollar every few months is more than fine by me, but i wouldnt ever change my name, even if it only cost a dime everytime,  the customization i wouldnt care about. i personally dont see a lot of these thigns as pay to win, its more pay to customize or make things easier, but i can see how to some, pay for eaze could be like pay to win, especially if they think going through whole draft classes is ridiculous. i do it and i think it is. ideal for me, is that the game would take time or money for about the same results. those who invest more time can get all the functions that aid players, they just have to put the work in. times when they can't, they will suffer. those who put work in and pay would have an easier time and probably be more prone to faster leagues or more teams. then again with some of my ideas that would cost them extra so that isnt so fair either. 

 
 
i think they nailed it when calling this a make or break move. i think, biased as i am, that is what this is, and without a lot of community help pushing it and ADs that hit the right people, i worry this is a potential break. Reading the comments i started worrying even more about people leaving. if the game becomes mostly playing it alone then 120+ dollars over 3 years is horrible. I kind of feel like i would be paying that much to send paul the occasional message. 
 
others brought it up, but i would strongly urge, though i am sure it is harder to do. whatever the price is, it almost has to be per season and not per month. it would likely devastate slower leagues. though if its not per team then i guess some could try to get more for there money by more teams and not faster leagues. I do share the worry that we are keeping worlds, expanding them. adding new ones, then almost assurely losing over 50% or players when full worlds transferring would only about half fill the new leagues. My first thought would be to try and cut down on leagues almost till they start to fill though that will have other problems, i think empty leagues could be absolutely fatal to this game. rather than a faster league, if i try multiple slow teams... with this model how many slow leagues can we really fill enough of? also as a#@! as i am about going through whole draft classes, for me it just wouldnt work unless there were an easier way to begin with. i am odd and not indicative, but its hard to see the changes working out for me though i think i at least owe anders to give it a chance.
 
again, in my experience, the best manager game i played allowed people to do it and beat and entire world of thousands of other people for free, it just took more work  and speaking to others to learn tricks. I am biased and think that is thus the way to go, because it agreed well with me, and if it didnt have 2 games a day and times i needed to be up at 5-6 am on weekends i would still be actively playing it most likely. that game has lost a lot of people but is still a much much larger game that is translated and has support in a number of languages and a much larger staff, and even then i dont think it is fully funding them anymore and they have had to start other games, etc. I tend to think bouncer is right about focusing on growth, but again i am biased and that is easier said than done. 
 
other comments, feed into pride. in said game international winners get press and immortalized in a sense, i got a small trophy shipped overseas to me which i dont suggest. its low priority, but a formal hall of fame for a teams great players or champions visible or listed cross world can all play into pride some. i still log in to the other game ot see if records still stand or to clear the unworthy out of my team hall of fame. I have no idea what happens in worlds other than biscuit and if i were able to, i would at least be curious enough to go flipping through other worlds looking at differences or for familiar names
 
edit: holy shit this started as a short response, i am apparently physically incapable of being concise. I probably need more human contact or something


#58

Posted August 10, 2018 - 12:30 AM

Big-Bobby Clobber

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Hows abouts this: Game-World A (GWA), totally free-to-play, limited features. When full: open-up GWA2, GWA3, and so-on.

GWB: low monthly fee, with increased game-features. When full: open-up GWB2, GWB3, and so-on.

GWC: medium monthly fee, even more features, included GWB participation, and so-on.

GWD: increased fees, even more features, included GWB and GWC participation, and so-on.



#59

Posted August 10, 2018 - 04:54 AM

Red Fox

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spreadsheets isnt premium, but making it easier could be a pretty big thing. what takes me a month (not constantly, obviously) to manually put in with likely errors could be done in minutes the day before the draft. also a game i played let people order id numbers and upload a draft order which would make it easier as well. with the bigger worlds, i will need the longer season to go through the entire draft...

 

 

on that note, one worry i have had since before the new ones, will juniors have simmed a few seasons before the first in the new world? my ratings are useless without that... then again if things change, as they seemingly will, they will likely be useless anyhow

 

the talk of community is nailing it in my mind. I am trying to convince myself to at least try it a few months, but especially if features are still trickling in and all the time ive sunk into my own (likely shit) formulas turn useless, it feels more like starting a new game than continuing. as others ive grown attached to my team, and though i have made moves to get older, the core i built when i started is just reaching mid 20s and i am in my first season after promotion. if those attachments are gone, meaningless arrays that they are, then i would be staying for the community. if littleb and other familiar names go, i will honestly spend all my time regretting money spent, which i tend to do anyways. 3.50 is doable, i do wish it was per season and not per month. 42 dollars is where it starts to get uncomfortable. i dont spend that much on games, ive loosened up to buying old games on sale. then i own them and i can go through them when i have time.  what the game has is community because 42 dollars per year, then a few years its 126 and it just starts to look like a bad purchase for me when a tenth that can get something on sale. i dont know. I had myself convinced to try it a few months and now i am swaying back the other way. i like anders, i like the game, i like the idea of anders making money, but its pretty much going to be a new game if substantial people are leaving, and if i had joined a game where i was to pay after the first month, id have at best quit after a few days if i gave it a chance at all. 

 

 

my intention was to provide things that could make the game easier and customizable rather than true advantages. i vastly prefer to spend a couple actual years as a feeder team building up resources then go win a title than pay to play. to me, i just assumed there were tons of pay to play games where there wasnt extra stuff. i have actually never, i think, paid monthly fees for a game. ive put some money into games, but generally that was when i was under the impression the things i got from that would last. when the game changed and those things went away and required monthly payments, i left, even with still some funds of a sort there. ET please dont take this personally, but from my perspective I think i have possibly disagreed with every single comment you have posted in this thread (finally made myself read it all, sorry for the spam) just different perspectives. there is separate leagues, some where you pay per month and get everything, other ones where you can unlock everything for the same price, but you can unlock some features for less or none at all for free. i might pay a dollar to not have to input all those number manually as that is where i spend the vast majority of my time in this game. a dollar every few months is more than fine by me, but i wouldnt ever change my name, even if it only cost a dime everytime,  the customization i wouldnt care about. i personally dont see a lot of these thigns as pay to win, its more pay to customize or make things easier, but i can see how to some, pay for eaze could be like pay to win, especially if they think going through whole draft classes is ridiculous. i do it and i think it is. ideal for me, is that the game would take time or money for about the same results. those who invest more time can get all the functions that aid players, they just have to put the work in. times when they can't, they will suffer. those who put work in and pay would have an easier time and probably be more prone to faster leagues or more teams. then again with some of my ideas that would cost them extra so that isnt so fair either. 

 
 
i think they nailed it when calling this a make or break move. i think, biased as i am, that is what this is, and without a lot of community help pushing it and ADs that hit the right people, i worry this is a potential break. Reading the comments i started worrying even more about people leaving. if the game becomes mostly playing it alone then 120+ dollars over 3 years is horrible. I kind of feel like i would be paying that much to send paul the occasional message. 
 
others brought it up, but i would strongly urge, though i am sure it is harder to do. whatever the price is, it almost has to be per season and not per month. it would likely devastate slower leagues. though if its not per team then i guess some could try to get more for there money by more teams and not faster leagues. I do share the worry that we are keeping worlds, expanding them. adding new ones, then almost assurely losing over 50% or players when full worlds transferring would only about half fill the new leagues. My first thought would be to try and cut down on leagues almost till they start to fill though that will have other problems, i think empty leagues could be absolutely fatal to this game. rather than a faster league, if i try multiple slow teams... with this model how many slow leagues can we really fill enough of? also as a#@! as i am about going through whole draft classes, for me it just wouldnt work unless there were an easier way to begin with. i am odd and not indicative, but its hard to see the changes working out for me though i think i at least owe anders to give it a chance.
 
again, in my experience, the best manager game i played allowed people to do it and beat and entire world of thousands of other people for free, it just took more work  and speaking to others to learn tricks. I am biased and think that is thus the way to go, because it agreed well with me, and if it didnt have 2 games a day and times i needed to be up at 5-6 am on weekends i would still be actively playing it most likely. that game has lost a lot of people but is still a much much larger game that is translated and has support in a number of languages and a much larger staff, and even then i dont think it is fully funding them anymore and they have had to start other games, etc. I tend to think bouncer is right about focusing on growth, but again i am biased and that is easier said than done. 
 
other comments, feed into pride. in said game international winners get press and immortalized in a sense, i got a small trophy shipped overseas to me which i dont suggest. its low priority, but a formal hall of fame for a teams great players or champions visible or listed cross world can all play into pride some. i still log in to the other game ot see if records still stand or to clear the unworthy out of my team hall of fame. I have no idea what happens in worlds other than biscuit and if i were able to, i would at least be curious enough to go flipping through other worlds looking at differences or for familiar names
 
edit: holy shit this started as a short response, i am apparently physically incapable of being concise. I probably need more human contact or something

 

 

Well, don't worry,. the feeling is mutual. :)

 

I'm having a hard understanding your point, but I think growth won't be a problem if Anders and Glawing manage to get some visibility on this game through advertising.



#60

Posted August 10, 2018 - 06:21 AM

neuralhandshake

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Anders and Glawing: why not try another Indiegogo or Kickstarter campaign before taking the game to be pay-to-play? Even if you guys just raise enough funds to offset needing to be pay-to-play for a year, that's still a year longer for players to save up or go without having to spend money thanks to the donations of others who can, kind of like a supercharged version of what All-Stars and Contributors do now.

 

I'd be willing to pay for 'perks' (Kickstarter exclusive logos or jersey styles? Maybe some sort of Kickstarter backer designation?) or even a lifetime lump-sum fee to avoid having to pay a montly $7 for my two teams. 

 

I'm actually most unhappy about having to pay for separate teams. It means I have to choose one team to dump because I can't justify paying $7 to play. If I really want to, I can swing $3.50 a month. But honestly? Right now I don't really want to, especially when we have to build teams from scratch and I'm not 'attached' to any players yet. One month free might help that, sure, but one of my favorite things about the game is that it IS free, and you can pay IF you want to.

 

It's hard to recommend a pay-to-play game to people even if it is free for the first month.

 

I urge you guys to consider a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign. As a perk, it would bring in new managers and if you can keep the game going guaranteed free for say, at least a year because of it, then at the end of the year you may have even more people willing to pay.

 

I'm just not sure I'll be one of them.






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