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#1

Posted April 29, 2019 - 05:19 PM

Kyle44

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I just had a 23-year-old retire in Attack.  He has played the entire season and was growing.  How is that possible?

 

Also, I had a 28 year old shortlisted who apparently retired too.  Hopefully, this can be fixed as I've worked hard to get a young team, and to have them hang them up is a little disheartening lol

 

Thanks!

 

 



#2

Posted April 30, 2019 - 03:00 AM

TheWizard

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Reoccurring injuries?  Found out he was better at golf than hockey?  Inherited his father's hotel conglomerate?

 

There are many reasons why players retire, old age not being a factor.  Not sure if this is a bug or part of the immersion.



#3

Posted April 30, 2019 - 09:57 AM

Kyle44

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Well, he only missed 4 games over 2 seasons so it wasn't injuries.  However all the players I saw that retired young had the trait of being lazy.  Could be that the lazy players may be riskier to sign and develop than other traits?



#4

Posted May 01, 2019 - 03:13 AM

TheWizard

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That is possible.

 

There are a lot of player development factors that go on behind the scenes that managers don't see.



#5

Posted May 01, 2019 - 09:40 AM

Paul T

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Wondering if this is a glitch or behaving as expected.  If not a glitch, this could be a game changer for evaluating players.  Looking forward to the answer.  Thanks for the heads-up!


*BISCUIT - SEASON 16 - TARNISHED SILVER BISCUIT PLATE CHAMPION*

 


#6

Posted July 22, 2019 - 06:51 AM

GamePlanHockey

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The age span in which players retire is much wider now. In some rare cases players may retire in their low 20's.

 

And yes, the psychological profile will influence the retirement age of a player. The updated help files (coming this fall) will describe this further.



#7

Posted July 22, 2019 - 07:52 AM

EXXEO

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Holy Crap!

#8

Posted August 03, 2019 - 04:59 PM

Deadwing

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Uhh.. 23 years old and retiring sounds a little weird. No hockey player would retire at the age of 23 unless being injured multiple times over and over. Maybe have more factors into the retiring decision? I was pretty displeased by the fact that development pretty much ends around 24 years, which is not often the case in real life. 



#9

Posted August 03, 2019 - 05:20 PM

Kyle44

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Uhh.. 23 years old and retiring sounds a little weird. No hockey player would retire at the age of 23 unless being injured multiple times over and over. Maybe have more factors into the retiring decision? I was pretty displeased by the fact that development pretty much ends around 24 years, which is not often the case in real life. 

 

I like the idea of players in this game sometimes declining at younger ages if they aren't being utilized properly, but I agree, they should be developing more since mid 20s is their prime.  They should either be developing still a bit longer or more rapidly at a younger age, since for the most part it is only 1 or 2 overall per season until they hit 21-ish, then it is max 1 overall gain per season until 24 right now, then 1 every 2-3 seasons until 30ish.



#10

Posted August 03, 2019 - 05:55 PM

Deadwing

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Yeah.. I mean players just don't retire at 23 no matter what. Lazy attribute might come into play around 30 when they go "okay, I can't do this crap anymore". I think there's some tuning to be done here.



#11

Posted August 03, 2019 - 06:27 PM

rainsilent

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Players actually do. There is a given history of it however it isn't that common in the top levels. That is where I likely think the issue you all are having is. In this game lets us consider the SHL and BHL the ranks of the best leagues around the world that aren't the NHL for simplicity sake and a relatively wider range than just one league. Under that is say college level and below. Now think about how few of those players actually continue their sports careers.

 

Keep this stat in mind and specifically the fact that it is NFL rather than NHL and the fact that the NFL has significantly more players per team than the NHL does. Of all of the college athletes playing (again NFL) about 10% make a professional career out of it. That means about 90% of players of that sport are retiring before they even reach 25 years of age.

 

That said yes it is a different sport I admit so it isn't fully translatable however the point I am trying to make still stands. As a result at the lower levels, this actually makes sense. There are players leaving sports at a young age in real life for various reasons and a handful of them even have the ability, and show the promise of potentially making it professionally somewhere however for whatever reason they decide against it.

 

My bigger concern is a lack of continued development past roughly 20-21 for a majority of players. That said we don't know of late bloomers either as that may still be a thing where players get a 2nds burst of development.



#12

Posted August 03, 2019 - 06:51 PM

Kyle44

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Ya, minor leaguers and players in Europe I could understand retiring, but a player in the top-level should not be retiring young if they are getting playing time in GHL, for instance.  Aside from special Patrik Berglund cases, players typically don't lose interest from hockey unless they are always on a bad team, or have a diminished role on the team.  I see your point, and for the most part agree rain, I just want to throw out there that a top prospect playing top minutes in the aahl would not retire in real life, even if they were lazy. 

 

Your point on development I agree with 100%.  Players, especially goalies and dmen, typically don't fully develop until they are in their mid to late 20s.  Seeing a bit more development out of 22-27-year-olds would be nice, although I see also how this could create the same problem as old-gen of having too many top-end players.  So what I'd propose is having a larger development curve, but also more "busts" or less developed players in the draft.  That way prospects would actually develop more like real life, but the game wouldn't have a GHL with only 90+ players.  If not that then at least have more noticeable development in the 22-27 age range.



#13

Posted August 04, 2019 - 01:16 AM

rainsilent

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If not that then at least have more noticeable development in the 22-27 age range.

 

In other words more steady development over an extended time over the current burst development, talking in general, with ideally the same end results.

 

As for young players even at the top just up and retiring it still happens. It is just rarer. Paul Ranger as a real-life NHL example. He attempted a comeback which ultimately lead to nothing I grant but it is evidence that it does happen. Albeit as I said it is rather rare. I understand the points against it but it isn't completely unprecedented. I think the best way to take this is to try to keep an eye on how young they are consistently retiring. The frequency is the key to note here.



#14

Posted August 09, 2019 - 08:24 AM

Paul T

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This will be an unpopular opinion - which I totally understand - but I kind of like the way things are now in terms of player development and retirement.

 

Currently player development is all over the place.  I have a 22 year old that has only improved 1 rating (+1 shooting) in two seasons with no additional improvement in sight.  I also have a handful of 22-27 year olds that have improved almost every single rating over the first two seasons.  Also a 34 year old that has improved skating, spirit, endurance and +1 overall this season.  That all being said, I like the slower rates of improvement as it doesn't allow teams to stack up with younger players and end up with all 90+ players in a few seasons (like the old game worlds).  The truth is most 22-27 year olds, on average, will still improve +1 "overall" every 2 seasons (i.e. if you sign a 22 year old 88 overall, when they are 26 they will be 90 overall).  Obviously there are exceptions to this, certain players improve faster, slower or not at all - which is where scouting becomes important.  I suppose it's less exciting to see those development messages in your inbox less frequently, but I'd rather that than GHL teams with all 90 rated players.  The way things are now also values older veteran type players, which is how it should be.

 

As for early retirement - age 23 is a bit excessive.  I can agree with that.  But I personally think the game is more fun when the occasional curve ball is thrown your way and you have to react... and manage.  Key word being occasional.  If we start seeing 23 year olds retiring every year, then it should probably be changed.  Then again, if it's "lazy" players that retire early, then this adds a ton of strategy to the game when signing players and I'm all for more strategy.

 

Just want to avoid the game becoming "who can obtain the youngest team possible and keeping that team in tact for the next 10 seasons without any bumps in the road".  Because that was the case in the old world and the same teams won over and over again without much change year over year.


*BISCUIT - SEASON 16 - TARNISHED SILVER BISCUIT PLATE CHAMPION*

 


#15

Posted August 09, 2019 - 01:16 PM

rainsilent

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The only possible disagreement I can offer up is in regards to development. While I fully agree that randomness in development is good it cannot be fully random or it becomes a complete crapshoot in terms of development. That would only lead to confusing frustration. What I mean by this in regards to this game is that players shouldn't gain 3 overall one year and then not gain in overall at all the next 2+. There should be an observable slow down to development as it shouldn't appear to stop dead. There isn't enough data yet to really say exactly what is happening but the general trend appears to be that players are hitting a soft cap abruptly at around 21 and from there they crawl in terms of growth with some exceptions. Slowing around 21 is fine and understandable. Going from rapid development abruptly to a slow crawl is a bit off considering that skill growth is largely seen in the light of as you get better it becomes harder to improve further.

 

That said ideally each player would be slightly different from the next with different skill caps based upon their hidden talent ratings. This, in combination with the player's ambition, should be the largest determining factors in terms of when development slows with that being loosely based upon age. That said there very well may be late bloomers in the system that don't start really developing again until 24 for example. Again we don't know because of lack of time with the current development system.






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